Kong Hee’s Pastorpreneurship?

Some are already making jokes about Pastor Kong Hee’s wealth as Kong Hee Fatt Choy. He and his wife has 3 boutiques – Ed Hardy at Heeren, Skin at Great World City and Christian Audigier at Ion. And they didn’t need to draw an income from CHC since 2005 as these businesses are lucrative enough. So lucrative that they can supposedly support his Horizon Towers condo at Leonie Hill District 9 condominium, which costs from $2.8-6.5 million according to Property Guru, and his wife’s residence in Beverly Hills according to rumours.

Pastorpreneurship is one word I could use to describe this whole rich business pastor church, adjective in that order of priority apparently to Kong Hee if the rumours on him are true and the Youtube videos are to be believed. Pro-Kong Hee supporters, and I suppose not all CHC members are blindly devoted to Kong Hee’s personality cult, would argue that the Devil is making us envious of Kong Hee’s success. More than just faith in the legal principle of innocent until proven guilty, the Kong Hee devotees forget that their pastor is also human and probably exposed to temptation and days in the desert as well. Some have alarmingly insinuated a call to arms as their church is supposedly under siege by the Devil. To CHC’s credit still, a minority of CHC goers acted as the voices of reason, which we shouldn’t be surprised as this constructive introspection has happened before.

The business of religion
Sat, Jun 05, 2010
The New Paper

GIVE.

Or as Pastor Kong Hee, the founder of City Harvest Church, put it in one of his many sermons posted online: “Give until tears stream down your eyes.”

That tithe is collected in churches is not new. But how it is used may have changed over time and that is causing some concern.

In 2001, eyebrows were raised when New Creation Church bought East Coast Recreation Centre, through its business arm Rock Productions, for over $10 million. Some of the church members had questioned then the use of church funds for investment purposes.

The church argued then that the business arm is run as a separate entity and that the purchase was in line with the church’s constitution.

Fast forward to present day.

City Harvest’s investment in Suntec City – where New Creation Church runs its services – sparked a series of letters to the press.

Readers also wrote in to The New Paper pointing out that the investment was substantial – City Harvest had invested $310 million.

Once again, the use of donations, or tithe, for business became an issue among some church members.

The central issue appears to be the complexity of running a religion as a business. The church’s founder, Mr Kong, also declares that he is a businessman.

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62 Responses

  1. [...] Not by a mile – Facebook: Exhortations for CHC [via Irreligious] – The Sun Shines on Singapore: Kong Hee’s Pastorpreneurship? – Diary of A Singaporean Mind: Last Word on CHC and Kong Hee. – Blogpastor: City Harvest Church [...]

  2. 1 Corinthians 9:7 – Paul says, of himself and the apostles: “who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?” 30000 sheeps.

    Pastor means Shepherd

  3. [...] Not by a mile – Facebook: Exhortations for CHC [via Irreligious] – The Sun Shines on Singapore: Kong Hee’s Pastorpreneurship? – Diary of A Singaporean Mind: Last Word on CHC and Kong Hee. – Blogpastor: City Harvest Church [...]

  4. After going through this blog post, i was really pained and went to see the authorship. Interestingly, to my surprise, it is anonymous.

    Doesn’t it tantamount to incredibility of the author who is quick to make remarks about a man of God and not been able to write his own name to take responsibility of his or her writings.

    Also, it seems, the author has never been a giver. Because, a giver would understand, by experience, that “you give and shall be given back to you, pressed down, shaken together, running over…” exactly as Bible teaches. I have been a giver and like me, other 29,999, brothers and sisters. And, we have experienced supernatural provisions making way to us.

    It seems that the author has never served others. Had he or she been, would know the pain of servant hood.

    It seems the person has never been to City Harvest Church. I encourage you and challenge you to go for one week starting from tomorrow, Sunday, the 14th August, and if your life doesn’t get transformed..As taste of the pudding is in eating.

    • My two cents of opinion….personally I think the programs from CHC is very effective. They have managed to combined all those high octane power seminars programs into a church perspective. Indeed it has become a very successful model whether for business or otherwise. The sad thing is that, this kind of mind altering and manipulating programming is really very bad to the society as a whole. I fear for my children’s future where such programming tools were to fall into the hands of the unscrupulous such as what we are seeing now.

      As a Christian, my church encourage us to tithes. Indeed the old Testaments of the Bible teaches about the “first fruit” and tithing where the Jews gave their first produce as an offering to GOD and they are also commanded to pay a tenth of their INCREASE and such tithes are to be put into the storehouse meant for GOD’s people and a portion of of given to the priesthood as they have no inheritance or means of income (contrast this to Christ and the apostles in the new Testament where Christ was a carpenter and apostle Paul was a tent maker). In fact, the apostle have to work and earned their keeps (wages) although the apostle did received love offerings.

      NO such commandments of tithing was given to the Christians in the New Testament. Can any of the proponents of the so called laws of harvest show us that such commandments of tithing was given to the Christians in the new Testaments?

      Well, many Old Testaments prophets were indeed blessed by GOD. But were there any apostles in the new Testaments became rich for preaching the Gospels? Did the apostles enforced the tithes?

      If the laws of harvest is true, does that means Jesus Christ died on the cross for nothing? Isn’t that Jesus died so that we may have life and life in abundance? (That doesn’t mean if we just sits idle God will prospers us. We are need to work hard to earn our wages and GOD will bless our hands)

      Is His grace on the cross useless to us since we can do it by our own efforts i.e by tithing? Does that means that the rich in world comprises of Christians who tithes only?

      Are Christians Jews? If so why not Christians starts to practice all the laws of the Jews and Torahs? Shouldn’t then Christians be circumcised like the Jews? In fact, the Muslims who adopted part of the old Testaments did better by adopting some of the laws of the Jews by circumcision and not eating pork! THE FACT IS THAT TITHING IS FOR THE JEWS but no such commandments was given to the Christians.

      If any Christian is reading this, please search the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you. Tithing and giving your offering is required of every able Christians to support the church and its ministries. Such Tithes and offerings are given to the church and not given to GOD per se. It is not a commandment in the Bible as Christ paid it all on the cross. If Christ is not enough, then what else is enough?

      We should give generously (within our means) to the church and the church should donate wisely to support charities and for the poor and needy. These monies are NOT meant to be used to support any other activities (pastors’ worldly business, secular singing career of pastor’s wife included, etc).

      My GOD JEHOVAH is a GOD of Justice, of grace and full of mercy. I hope Christians reading this would continue to be loving to the world and continue to be strengthen and give to the poor and needy (within our means) as our focus is on CHRIST and not on any worldly idol (Kong Hee included) no matter how indebted you are to the church.

      Also, your Pastors do not need live to be a poor church mouse neither are they suppose to be living an extravagance life from your tithes and offerings. True Pastors will bless others with the excess given to them (living in a multi-million penthouse is excessive comparatively and is not of good stewardship to GOD’s blessings.

      Remember, we are the church but the church and its pastors are not God. Test the spirit and see the fruits of every leaders as we are living in the end times where the angel of darkness may even appear as the angel of light to deceive many.

      May GOD’s peace be with you, even so for Kong Hee and CHC members and all those Christians traumatized with the subtle indoctrination of the principles of tithing (whether the law of harvest or otherwise).

      • I can see you do understand, had the interpretation of the Bible correctly.You can see Tithings as errors in the New Testament era,and that is quite amazing,at the backdrop of great man of God late Kenneth E Haggin supporting Tithes.

        In fact the Charismatic world I am in, also believed in Tithings,but they never put it under the statements of Faith,and if they do,maybe I will shoot it down as heresy!

        It has been a good thing,in a way that Tithings being taught help Churches to prosper,and the gospel is spread widely.It was taught as a principle,never a Doctrine.Some do carry too far,even believed on curses for non-tithers.Givings is voluntary and out of free will,not compulsion like Tithes,which,it is a Payment,and it has nothing to do with our Christian Faith.Sowing and Reaping principles do carried to extreme by most people,and the law of the harvest.

        People who want to set aside 10 or any % for the church,that is a very good practice,and I encourage it.If you love the Lord Jesus and His Kingdom,and if you really know that once a soul is lost that is Eternity,you will know that the Gospel and message of Salvation trumps,the Kingdom works,and many issues for considerations.I must add,those who are non-tithers,they can be bless as much as anyone,and it is by Faith and Trust,and obedient on the weighty matters…goodness,mercy and kindness.

        On the other hand,if a Pastor preach that God bless people,and himself is not bless with riches and wealth,what example would he be leading?I thought a Pastor should lead by example?What do you think,or see?

        Love Frankie Lee.

    • Ya, I quote Kenneth Haggin, be a giver and you can receive supernatural provisions even you car’s empty tank will give you extra mileage??? Something is just not right….

      Be a giver yes! Supernatural provisions..hmmm.I don’t think so. The Jews as GOd’s chosen people have seen the most supernatural provisions in their lives…I don’t see manna dropping from the sky now, do you?

      GOD open doors for us because He blesses us through Christ and not through our works. For the laws brings death but Jesus Christ came to bring life to us. He said, it is FINISHED on the cross!!!

      HE carried our sins and curses on the cross and paid it all. There is no laws of harvest…the Bible said Christ is our blessed seed that died and bring blessings to us all who believe in HIM. That seed is not your seed planting and harvesting.

      The grace of GOD is given to us who don’t deserve it and we are not Jews (GOD’s chosen people). We are never Jews and will not be one. Just ask the Jews!

    • The proof is in the tasting? I tasted CHC for ten years. The most wasted years of my time. The most self righteous, insecure and expensive time of my life. Yes, the pudding was rotten. For me at least.

  5. Man of god? What a joke, that fool is just in it for the money. You don’t see the priests in catholic churches enjoying wealth or luxury. What they have will be given to help the need and that is what god himself would do, not spending on multi-million properties while watching the world suffer. Kong is just a fraud, he is ruining the name of god.

  6. COME TO LIGHT.. YOU NEED VIT D…

  7. Just let them talk it’s ok just dont reply.. or they will get paid and excited and write more … freedom of speech comes with consequences.

  8. I am from Africa, and I am so excited for the privilege to watch and here this man preach. They share the word of love in such a manner that everyone that hears is uplifted and not only falls in love with God, but the neighbour as well! And sure that is an excellent thing. Cant you guys see it? Are you now like the Jews who denied one of their own? Dont you think you now being used of the same enemy that used the Jews? You have special privilage javing this man and Joseph Prince with driving distance, the share the kind of word the world is craving for. But all you can do is to look for the wrong they do. Even Peter had to be rebuked by Paul because he fell many times, but who are you to rebuke a minister of good? I fear for you.

    • Pastor Kong has touched many many lives and many do not understand him at all. They just use the mouth to blabber without action and sling mudshots without thoughts.

  9. Pastor Kong didn’t take a salary from the church. Something that this author failed to mention.

    • “Pastor Kong didn’t take a salary from the church. Something that this author failed to mention.”

      Who needs a salary when there are tens of millions to move around?

      • Your money?

      • I agree. Even without a salary he manages church funds. It is the irresponsibility of the man who dared to edit accounting books we are concerned about.

        Ignore Jen, he or she is retarded.

    • Ya Kong Hee didn’t take salary from the church. This is sad. Modern day preachers now is paid a “conference/speaker’s fee” and believe me it is a huge sum/ percentage of your collections (just ask your church to deny this!) We can give love offerings and free will offerings but come on …paying conference and/or speaker’s fees for Gospel message from God???

      My question to you dear Charles is… did Christ asked us to preach the Gospel (Good news) to the four corners of the earth to make monies so that the preacher can become rich?

      The Bible teaches us “freely you receive, freely give”. We receive our salvation because the Holy Spirit open the eyes of your understanding and convict your heart. This is the same for me and you and every born again believers.

      How can anyone true to GOD make monies from the preaching of the Gospel. Remember Simon the sorcerer was rebuked because he wanted the Holy Spirit to make money??

      Tell me Charles, did any of the Apostles received monies for preaching the Gospel???

      What makes a Christian’s preacher different from a Buddhist monk and lately in Taiwan all the self proclaimed spiritual gurus (both man and woman priest) if the Gospel is not really free at all???

      And lastly, did you and me take too lightly our LORD JESUS CHRIST and the salvation given to us all by making a mockery out of the Gospel??

  10. I discover a new phenomenon in our world.People tend to believe in Lies rather than Truths.I want to change it.Kong Hee is innocent now,and every Singaporean know it,and everybody agreed.Now who disagree with me,let me see him/her?

    • Kong Hee is obviously innocent.The Board approved the funds,and their own constitution agreed,and the members support the project,CrossOver,so where’s the Mis-Use?Mis-appropriate?Criminal Breach of Trust?Whose Trust then?

      His wife Sun Ho can sing,and dance and preach,if we don’t send her,then send who?Finance her is legitimate and common sense and it was done openly not hiding the facts or being unaccountable to members!

      Who are we to slander and told them what to do with their Funds?The Church mission is to preach the Gospel,cross over to the secular for them,and it was done.

      Very soon we will also be censored to give Funds to Overseas missions,and charity also–it is curbing now,I guess!

      • Dear Frankie,

        There is simply non…all those conspiracy theories. In fact non can rightly judge as every has sinned and fallen short of God’s glory. We rightly need to repent and ask for forgiveness from God for our wrongs. HE is mercifully and HIS grace is sufficient for you and me.

        But not judging doesn’t means that we can deny our responsibility for corrections, for reproof so that the body of Christ will not go astray from unsound doctrines and man made doctrines. We need the Holy Spirit to guide us and gives us the spirit of discernment!

        Remember Jesus ate with the sinners, the tax collectors, etc. Jesus was without sin and He did not sin even when He was with the sinners and tax collectors. Likewise, Sun Ho as an associate Pastor and Pastor’s wife, she can preach the Gospel to the lost through her songs. What is not right is the songs and everything in it that associate with the world and opposite to the Bible were prominently promoted but non of the Bible and GOD’s Words.

        Tell me then, is this reflective of preaching the Words to the sinners??? I was curious and took a peek a “Chine Wine”. It is just not right for Christian’s message. Remember our LORD JESUS CHRIST, He was with us (sinners) and yet did not indulge in our sinful activities.
        In fact, He threw out all the business activities that were on going in the Holy Temple of GOD. That was the only time, the Bible mentioned that CHRIST was very angry…I wonder why?

        Let us not deceive ourselves that “Chine Wine” and the crossover project will ever bring people to CHRIST!!!

        CHC might as well invest these monies to the many up and coming Christians musicians and support their ministry if CHC is truly serious that music can change and bring people to CHRIST.

        I sincerely hope that this case facing Pastor Kong Hee and CHC will not affect the whole body of Christ adversely though that may have already happened. Let us pray for peace and GOD’s guidance in times like this.

        Agape

        Gill Khaur

    • The church members and board might have been informed, but the Kong Hee still edited the accounting books. A criminal offence.

      • You: The church members and board might have been informed, but the Kong Hee still edited the accounting books. A criminal offence.

        Reply: Once Kong found to have edited the accounts with falsifications and incorrect details,that would be slam-dunk.Have seen any of it?

        Accountants,at the end of the day,needed to sign off.Check and double checks.

        By simply hurls accusation with no proper investigation into matters,or check on it carefully,the only people you can fool,is yourself.

  11. Hi Gill Khaur,
    I was puzzled like most do,”‘How China Wine can save souls?””.But it did.So all your analysis is now proven flawed.Not everyone is gifted with superior knowledge.

    The fact is,China Wine was a make-believe secular shows,it was a reel life.So let it be there.Don’t you think people who thought it to be real life,and supposed it is real life,sort of being dumb?

    Many undercover policewomen dressed like prostitutes,doesn’t mean they are one.

    What is pathetic for dumb Christians were,having seen and know that she was in undercover,make arrests,save 140 000 souls,and yet could be so stupid so as to suggests how can that save souls?

    Here we have a member of our body,Kong Hee being charged in Court for a crime that is so terribly weird.Did you know that we can commit a terrible sin by judging him as gulity,lose our own standings with God,be condemned to Hell,and for all the strife of hating our fellow brethren?

    You want to play the game as a matured Christian go ahead.A spiritual man judges all things and he judges correctly.The Bible warned:He that hate his brother abide in death.Don’t ever think for a moment that the words of God are careless.

    Love in Christ

    • Dear Frankie

      Let us not be a judge because the real Judge is Christ himself. I am not playing with you neither are other Christians “dumb” or “stupid” like you put it. Well, maybe you think everyone is….I really don’t know.

      I am not here not to make judgement on Chine Wine or to argue whether your pastor is dressing up to be make believe to draw 140,000 souls like you claimed. Maybe the make believe may really win 140,000 souls but don’t you think there might be one of your so called “dumb” Christians that may be misled by your pastor’s action and thinks that prostitution in the name of God is really acceptable and fall into the trap of the evil one? Could that make believe action to you, cause your so called “dumb” brothers or sisters in Christ to fall and regress from the faith? And where is the 140,000 saved souls?? Are they in Timbaktu??

      Did Christ tell His disciples to pretend and even go into undercover to preach the Gospel. Is it necessary? Didn’t He said go and preach and deposit My peace into the household and if they don’t receive it you are to leave and take back the peace? Do you believe in God’s Holy Words to win souls or is God so powerless that preachers has to stoop so low into prostitution and use their own strength and works to win people to Christ? Do you think your works and your thoughts are higher and better than God?

      Did God force and/or coerce people to accept HIM? I rest my case and would not see any need to comment further to you but please don’t mislead others in your half truth. Think of it, for over 2,000 years God didn’t need your ways and many have come to know Him. I am sure if He didn’t do that for 2,000 years, will He suddenly change and said hey” that is a good idea. I’ll just get a pastor to dress like a prostitute and in make believe to win souls???” HALF TRUTH IS A LIE!!! (By the way, part of the dance show a woman clinging on a man in a sex position….is that Biblical???)

      Your words are full of anger even against your own body in Christ. I don’t know who will go to hell, but I repent if I have sinned against God and if I have unintentional hurt you feelings. May His peace be with you.

      agape

      gill khaur

      • one of your so called “dumb” Christians that may be misled by your pastor’s action and thinks that prostitution in the name of God is really acceptable and fall into the trap of the evil one? ….

        Reply: Anyone’s action may stumble all kinds of people,just like Jesus Himself who came into the world,those Pharisees were stumbled,and out of envies and jealousies,they hated Him.The cause of offences are inevitable or inescapable realities,but woe to those for which it came!

        I cannot be responsible for people who refused to heed the word of the Lord,say,to take extra Oil for the preparation of the coming Bridegroom,thus they ,the Foolish Virhins were denied of their entry when the time had come for the door to be shut.

        The make-believe Prostitute,as we all know for sure it is just a make-up show,nothing real,and if it really stumble dumb Christians,then it is their foolishness,…their immaturity and their own foolishness.You cannot make good people whose actions were noble to be responsible for what Idiot and Dumb people may think or may be hurt,or may be stumbled.

        “”Dear Kong Hee,you preach that God will bless us with healings,answered prayers and propserity,and the scriptures on that Prosperity is clear.God our Father bless Abraham and Solomon,we believe those were real accounts….Since you as a Pastor,should lead by example,how is it that you are not bless financially?How come you did not live in Sentosa Cove?How come your prosperity message don’t work,but it is only a lie,because you didn’t lead us by example?…You must practice what you preach..etc..and so on….””

        Gill,You question where was that 140 000 souls,implying that I lied and I do not have any integrity at all because you suppose it is fictitious seemingly and is a falsified datas,with no real substance.Äre they in Timbaktu”?

        You didn’t know that by being a mocker,and a scoffer,that is very unacceptable in Christendom,and you want to do that.You use secular way to like those enemies of Christ,mocking and questioning our brethren motives and works of evangelisms.Go ahead and doubt all you want.

        You still cannot get over the dressed-like prostitute Prop,Make-believed show,and must I tell you once again,and again,it is just a fake show,and it is the dumb… for those who will take it seriously and even seriously criticised her for that?

        You do know some of the scriptures,and did well,for it is said:freely you received,freely you give.

        But you are still in the infancies of the scriptures,reasoning like kids.

        There is a serious danger for anyone who misunderstand the issues and thus become critical,and display the characteristices of the famous office of Satan,which is:The accuser of our brethren.

        Love in Christ

      • @ Frankie Lee. July 14, 2012 at 8:46 am
        = “The make-believe Prostitute, as we all know for sure it is just a make-up show, nothing real, and if it really stumble dumb Christians, then it is their foolishness,…their immaturity and their own foolishness.You cannot make good people whose actions were noble to be responsible for what Idiot and Dumb people may think or may be hurt, or may be stumbled.”

        Reply =
        1COR.8:7-13 = However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.
        ……. But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols?
        ……. And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
        ……. But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
        ……. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

    • @ Frankie Lee = “The Bible warned:He that hate his brother abide in death.Don’t ever think for a moment that the words of God are careless.”

      1JOHN.5:16-19 = If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
      ……. We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
      ……. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

      Pointing out a sin or evil deed to a brethren is not hate. It’s actually love. Real hate would be to not say anything and let that brethren wallow in his/her sin and his/her resultant destruction for the wages of sin is death.(ROM.6:23)
      ……. Hence, true and mature Christians will always tell their brethren about sin/unrighteousness/lawlessness, eg that homosexuality is a sin against God.(ROM.1:18-32) The Episcopal Church in America tolerates LGBT behavior and even allow these sinners to be pastors/ministers.(the blind leading the blind) This erring Church is telling the brethren that such abominable sins are acceptable.(LEV.20:13) Such a belief is unscriptural.(1COR.5:5 & 6:9-11, REV.21:8)

      I think Ps Kong Hee has sinned against God by committing CBT with his Church’s funds/God’s money, ie by funding his wife’s “Crossover” singing career in America, which proved to be unsuccessful. It was money down the drain, hence the present fallout. If Sun Ho’s singing career had been a success in America, the funds used would have been repaid by her and no one would have known about the CBT.

      ACTS.2:44-45 & 6:1 = Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. &
      ……. Now in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplying, there arose a complaint against the Hebrews by the Hellenists, because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution.

      So, Church funds or God’s money should rightly/lawfully be used to provide for the daily operation of the Church, the living expenses of Church workers, eg pastors, missionaries, office-staffs, etc and the needy, eg widows, orphans, disabled, homeless, etc, and for God’s work, eg evangelism, missions, outside charities, etc. It’s doubtful that KH’s Crossover Project is a part of God’s work bc it is not scriptural.

      ROM.10:13-18 = For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
      ……. How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
      “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[b]
      Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
      ……. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
      ……. So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
      ……. But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
      “Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
      And their words to the ends of the world.”

      Scripture does not say, “faith comes by hearing popular worldly music(like China Wine?) and then the Word of God.
      ……. Or by watching gladiators fighting or by watching travelling circuses or by watching gypsy-magic shows or by seeing box-office movies(like Harry Potter?) or reading best-seller books(like The Da Vinci Code?) or reading sensational tabloid news(like News Of The World?) or watching hot-porno(?), etc.

      • Dear UnCharismatic,

        Apostle Paul listed those sins by name,so do the Scriptures in many places,sin such as acts of Homosexuals,Fornications,Hate,Slanders,etc…Standing firm and exposing sins as exposed by the Bible,no one can dispute with you.

        I am glad you make yourself a clear point that it is not out of hate and hypocrisies which was the reason you pointed out sins.

        You thought Kong Hee sinned, Criminal Breach of Trust?You also said the CrossOver project as unsuccessful?Unscriptural?

        It is scriptural for one to marry a Prostitute.It is also scriptural for one to eat feaces.It is also scriptural to eat four footed beasts,serpents and drink its blood?…What do you think?

        The Crossover project was decided after being considered carefully,advised and prayed over it,listen to Spiritual advisers.They said they had the confirmation of God,and they went ahead.I don’t know about anything on that-the motives,the rationales,the purpose,and its strategies,weighing the pros and cons–so who I am to stand in the way of the Lord?

        As a whole the Crossover project was mixing secular tools,and creating oportunities for the works of Evangelisms,and it was done that way ultimately.So how serially blinded you must have been?Like Peter,he felt ashamed for mixing with the sinners and gentiles when Jews arrived,and he had this hypocrisies and fear of others opinion.Paul rebuke him.You are those Jews who are quick to condem Sun Ho,on her motives and purpose,and her nobility.

        She had the callings of the Lord,and my Lord Jesus Christ appeared to her,so who are we to undermine her integrity?

        All Heavens will vote yes,for the crossover project!

        There are people who use Church Funds,to use it it in such a way that it stay with the bank,years after years,and years after years,just like that man who diggged a hole in a ground and hid it till Christ return!

        The Chruch grow to many thousand of souls,are you rejoicing over sinners who repent,or envies over her growth,just like other self-deceived Competitors also known as Pastors,or Christians?

        The CHC Church is mupltiplying,as you said …of the Acts,but thoe who are not growing and remain small congregation,have you been there to rebuke them,for their ueslessness and incompetence?

        How they stand the way for progress and stumble peopled,and block people from being saved through their division in the Bodies of Christ?

        Love in Christ

      • @ Frankie Lee, on July 14, 2012 at 12:57 pm, said =
        “The Chruch grow to many thousand of souls, are you rejoicing over sinners who repent, or envies over her growth, just like other self-deceived Competitors also known as Pastors, or Christians?
        The CHC Church is mupltiplying, as you said …of the Acts, but thoe who are not growing and remain small congregation, have you been there to rebuke them, for their ueslessness and incompetence?”.

        Reply =
        MATT.7:13-20 = “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
        ……. “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
        ……. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.”

        JOHN.15:1-5 & 10 = “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
        …….Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
        ……. You are already clean because of the Word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
        ……. “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.” &

        “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”

        GALATIANS.5:19-23 = Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
        ……. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
        _ _ _ _ _ _ _

        Using your logic of “true Church = big congregation = megachurch”, then I think the Ka’aba in Mecca qualifies to be the true “church” and Islam is the true religion bc it has the most adherents in the world, ie 2 billion.

        Also, many in the big congregation of Charismatic megachurches use them to conduct their multi-level marketing or networking business(eg selling Amway products, insurance, real estate, mutual funds, etc) and to get girlfriends/boyfriends.(MATT.12:13)

  12. The main problem with Charismatics/Pentecostals is that they believe that God speaks to them thru random mental thoughts, ideas, impressions, visions, etc.
    ……. I don’t think that is Scriptural. God spoke to His prophets, eg Abraham and Moses, thru His invisible but audible Voice/Word or thru an anonymous human-looking Angel of God(pre-existent Christ). God, thru Jesus Christ, spoke to the apostles. At ACTS.9:4, the ascended JC(or God) spoke to Saul, later Paul, thru an invisible but audible Voice, after he was struck blind and fell to the ground. At ACTS.11:7, God spoke to Peter thru an invisible but audible Voice, while he was in a trance.
    ……. Such a charismatic belief of godly communication can easily cause them to be led astray by the Devil who lies to, tempts, accuses, scares, etc people thru their minds/brains/flesh.(MATT.4:4 & 16:22 & 23:27, JOHN.8:44, MARK.7:20-23) Satan also make people suspicious of others and take advantage of others.

    HEB.8:10 & 10:16 say that God puts His laws(or commandments or the Word/JC) into the minds and hearts of born-again believers by the power of the Holy Spirit, enabling them to supernaturally keep the laws of God.(JOHN.6:63 & 15:5) I think God does this when believers meditate on the Word of God.(HEB.4:12, EPH.6:16-17, ROM.10:17, 2TIM.3:16).
    ……. And God does not do this thru random thoughts. God has already established His laws thru Moses,(as found in the Scriptures) which are sufficient for righteous living. Present-day believers do not need to hear more commandments/laws from God.
    ……. LUKE.16:29-31 says that believers do not need miracles and signs and wonders, in order to be saved from hell. They only need the laws of God and to believe in the sacrifice of JC. (1COR.6:9-11, REV.21:8, MATT.7:20-23)

    • Dear Non-Charismatic,

      Did you notice one major error you ve made just like the many thousands of Theologians I have come across for so many years?

      Most people acknowledge great power of the devils,because they have experience the dark side before they came to know God.It is so easy for one to be misled by teh Devils whereas one is not easily led by God because the assumption was:Our God is vague,unreal and could not speak and led Christians properly.

      There is more fear of encountering from the dark side than for the right side,with God’s angels and God’s Spirit.

      You ve already express fear and the tendencies that the Evil one had more power and more say over Christian lives then the Lord who is on our side.You glorify the wisdom and power of the devils than the Lord God whom I serve by your writings.

      We don’t need miracle and healings of God,but for the false religion???,they need it and they should over power us,and we don’t have a God of Moses and Elijah???

      Only Satan can easily speak to others,and we must quickly suspect our fellow brethren,whereas our God is quite dull,is that correct?

      God is always speaking to us,through many ways;just like the demons who place thoughts,and tempt all of us,very frequently.To say that only the Devils can tempt us,and speak to us,thus undermining and erasing God,who also can speak to us,it shows your immaturity.

      God sent His Spirit to dwell in us,as our Comforter,our Teacher and Counsellor…are you suggesting God is unable to speak to us,but only through the Bible letters?The last time I check,my God and I are on a relationship,we speak and we fellowship,and we praise Him,and God is no IDOL,but a person,and a person relate to a person…a relationship..now which part you don’t understand?

      What’s the use of quoting scriptures to me when you just know none of its meaning?

      Frankie.

      • @ Frankie Lee, on July 13, 2012 at 11:20 am said… =

        “We don’t need miracle and healings of God, but for the false religion??? They need it and they should over power us, and we don’t have a God of Moses and Elijah???”

        # Reply =

        Jesus Christ did countless miracles and healings for the Jews and did the Jews believe in Him as their Christ/Messiah/Savior.? The answer is, “No”. So, true saving faith does not come from watching demonstrations of spiritual power or watching pop MTV like China Wine. Again the Word or Scripture says,…
        …. ROM.10:17 = So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.(the Word is also the Spirit, and is also JC – JOHN.1:1 & 14 & 6:63)

        Why did the Jews reject JC as their Christ even though they saw Him performing countless miracles and healings.?
        ……. At that time, the Jews were suffering under Roman occupation bc of their ancestors’ sins.(EXO.20:5) They had repented and God promised them a coming Messiah/Christ to deliver/save them.(ISA.9:6)
        ……. But the Jews mistakenly thought that their Christ would be like King David(JOHN.6:15), able to defeat the Romans and deliver the kingdom of earth, ie Israel, back to them. And when JC remained a pacifist(MATT.22:21) and only gave them a futuristic kingdom of heaven(MATT.4:17), they were disappointed with Him, rejected Him as their Christ, “murdered” Him and persecuted His disciples.
        ……. Then the Jews raised up false-christs(MATT.24:24) for themselves to lead them into armed rebellion against the Romans. It ended with their massacre at the Roman siege of Jerusalem during the Passover Feast of 70 AD.

        James the Righteous, the bishop of Jerusalem and a brother of JC, did not heed the warning of JC to flee Jerusalem at LUKE.21:20 & MATT.24:15, and died in that siege. James was the leader of the misguided Judaizers, a group of Jewish Christians, who campaigned for the newly joined Gentile Christians to be like them, ie keep Moses Law.(GAL.2:9-14 & ACTS.15:1-29) This controversy convulsed the early Church.
        ……. James died when his Judaizing followers blamed him for their predicament(trapped in Jerusalem) and threw him down a cliff.(source = historian Eusebius of Caesarea)
        ……. That is why, the letter of JAMES is devoid of Grace or salvation by being justified by faith in JC; and not by being justified by keeping Moses Law.(MATT.5:17-48) James’s letter is full of teachings about keeping Moses Law.

        REV.3::8 = “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.”

        Peace.

      • @ Frankie Lee, on July 13, 2012 at 11:20 am said =

        “God is always speaking to us,through many ways;just like the demons who place thoughts,and tempt all of us,very frequently.To say that only the Devils can tempt us,and speak to us,thus undermining and erasing God,who also can speak to us,it shows your immaturity.”

        # REPLY =

        HEB.1:1-3 = God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,…
        ….has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;…
        … who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
        …….

        JOHN.16:13-15 = “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
        ……. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
        ……. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.”

        JOHN.14:26 = “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”

        JOHN.6:63 = “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.”

        HEB.10:15-16 = But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
        ……. “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”

        JOHN.15:3 = “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.”

        HEB.4:12 = For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

        2TIM.3:16-17 = All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

        REV.21:8 = But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
        _ _ _ _ _ _ _

        So, in these last days, I think God mostly speaks to us by His Son, JC(=The Word). I think Scriptures say that God does this mostly thru His Word, as recorded by His prophets and His apostles/disciples in the Bible.

        I think any communication from the spiritual world that is outside of the Word of God is most likely of demonic origin or to get us to walk according to the flesh and not according to the Spirit.
        ……. Eg, MATT.22:37-40 commands us to not to do any deed that will cause harm or offense to others, self or God.(reverse meaning of “love God and love your neighbor/friend – avoid evil and do good) Any thought that arise in our minds/brains that aims to get us to commit evil deeds/sins is from the Devil, eg murder, adultery, cursing, lying, stealing, CBT, etc.(MARK.7:20-23)

        Peace.

    • 1. The main problem with Charismatics/Pentecostals is that they believe that God speaks to them thru random mental thoughts, ideas, impressions, visions, etc.
      ……. I don’t think that is Scriptural. God spoke to His prophets, eg Abraham and Moses, thru His invisible but audible Voice/Word or thru an anonymous human-looking Angel of God(pre-existent Christ). God, thru Jesus Christ, spoke to the apostles. At ACTS.9:4, the ascended JC(or God) spoke to Saul, later Paul, thru an invisible but audible Voice, after he was struck blind and fell to the ground. At ACTS.11:7, God spoke to Peter thru an invisible but audible Voice, while he was in a trance.

      REPLY: Since your muddied- idealogies runs common among many immature believers,I can answer in this manner, perhaps to enlighten you.

      God always speak to non-believers through impressions and thoughts, and many times signs and wonders….The Devils don’t make lying thoughts on people minds and imaginations, nor evil thoughts does not originate from them, but all from our own figment of imagination, thus the Devil’s work had been crippled always by us???….

      Did God strive in the hearts of man, the conviction of sins, of judgment and of the truths of God,& bearing witness?
      ————————————————————————————————
      ……. Such a charismatic belief of godly communication can easily cause them to be led astray by the Devil who lies to, tempts, accuses, scares, etc people thru their minds/brains/flesh.(MATT.4:4 & 16:22 & 23:27, JOHN.8:44, MARK.7:20-23) Satan also make people suspicious of others and take advantage of others.

      REPLY: God communication to us is to enlighten us, how is it to lead us astray?The Devil can lead us astray and the Devil is more powerful than God,and our God cannot do greater than them,and what mode they have/can use.They have a monopoly of mediums,signs and wonders whereas our God cannot?
      ——————————————————————————————————-

      HEB.8:10 & 10:16 say that God puts His laws(or commandments or the Word/JC) into the minds and hearts of born-again believers by the power of the Holy Spirit, enabling them to supernaturally keep the laws of God.(JOHN.6:63 & 15:5) I think God does this when believers meditate on the Word of God.(HEB.4:12, EPH.6:16-17, ROM.10:17, 2TIM.3:16).
      ……. And God does not do this thru random thoughts. God has already established His laws thru Moses,(as found in the Scriptures) which are sufficient for righteous living. Present-day believers do not need to hear more commandments/laws from God.
      ……. LUKE.16:29-31 says that believers do not need miracles and signs and wonders, in order to be saved from hell. They only need the laws of God and to believe in the sacrifice of JC. (1COR.6:9-11, REV.21:8, MATT.7:20-23)

      REPLY: What you are trying to say is not correct interpretation of scriptures at all but mere recitations of those dumb theologians, seeking to deceive and who hope to cast aspersion and doubts.

      They are the deceitful ones, and you are being conned yourself.
      You hope the Christendom to be powerless and ineffective, and God should not do great works nor show Himself powerful in all of us. You suppose only we just use words of our mouth, and God’s power should be curtailed. This is your fat hope. Believers do not need signs of God??, neither should they need to be healed from cancers and sickness,??? and should not get their prayers heard and answered.??? Only those form the dark side should monopolizes the use of miracles and wonders, and we all should be weak and powerless!!!. Once we see those demonic workers displaying signs and wonders,we,as Christians should be unable to do those signs and wonders, because they patent it.!!!I thought Moses copy the Egyptian’s magicians?

      • @ Frankie Lee.

        2 TIMOTHY 3:14-17 (NKJV) = But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

        All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

        MATTHEW 7:20-23 (NKJV) = Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

        “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

        GALATIANS 5:22-23 (NKJV) = But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

        …Peace….

  13. The Holy Scriptures will make one wise,and through those writings we live it out in real life.If the scriptures said God strive in the hearts of man,we believe in it.The Bible said God can speak,lead and talk to us,just like He talked and work with His disciples…In 1900,Christians suspect something amiss in our Chrstendom,which lack power and effectiveness,and the secular world triumph over us in many other ways,they sought the Lord….

    Since then,the Charismatic movements are responsible for the many millions,from South America,to South Korea.Our is changed,and out Gospel did have great breakthrough.Let us think outside the Box,there are traditions which bind us.

    How can uncontrolled Laughter save souls?But it did!How can Speaking in tongues,those out-of-the- world-noise,some called it Gibberish… able to impact our world?They did!They prayed into the supernatural world!

    The kinds of fruits we saw,those Charismatic believers laboring in the Word of God and the Gospel,like Reinhard Bonke and Benny Hinn,and Kong Hee…can we gain say on their good fruits?We can see their good fruits,and can list them down for you.But waht about your fruits?Can we see it?What ministry were you?Or how many Christian ministries have you tear down lately?

    Have you suceeded in tearing down and dividing the bodies of Christ?
    We want to see your fruits of Jealousies and envies,and strife and as you exhibit your fruits of hating our brethren,then we will know that you abide in death.By your fruits,we know you…Many have shown their hatred,and bitter comments againsts Kong Hee.We can see they are not belonging as one of us,becaue they hate.We love.

    The scriptures cannot be broken,those who hate their brethren,they lose their life with God.

    • @ Frankie Lee, on July 14, 2012 at 9:08 am said =
      “In 1900, Christians suspect something amiss in our Christendom, which lack power and effectiveness, and the secular world triumph over us in many other ways, they sought the Lord….”

      Reply =
      2THESS.2:9-12 = The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
      ……. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

      HEB.4:12-13 = For the Word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
      ……. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

      EPH.6:17 = And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God;

      1JOHN.3:8-10 = He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
      …….Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
      ……. In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

      1JOHN.5:18-19 = We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
      ……. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
      _ _ _ _ _ _ _

      Pentecostalism began in 1900 when Charles Parham seeked to recapture the miracles and signs and wonders done by Peter thru the power of the Holy Spirit at the Day of Pentecost of ACTS.2.(around 33 AD) Such occurrences had practically disappeared from the Churches, eg raising the dead, speaking tongues of unlearned foreign languages, anointed hankerchiefs, martyrdom, etc. Charismatics are neo-Pentecostals.
      ……. Miracles and signs and wonders were also done by Moses at the Day of Passover at EXO.12,(around 1,500 BC) eg parting of the Red Sea, sending plagues to the idol-worshipers, getting manna from heaven, 100 Jews defeating 1,000 Canaanites in war, etc.

      Notice that both era with explosions of God’s power happened when God was sending very important messages to the world. So, miracles and signs and wonders were to attest His messengers and His message.(HEB.2:4) Thru Moses, God gave the world His laws. Thru JC, God gave the world His salvation.
      ……. After Moses, such powerful demos by God dwindled. Similarly, after JC, such happenings dwindled to a rarity.
      ……. Did God send the world a new message thru Charles Parham.? The answer is no.

      I think Pentecostalism is unscriptural, so too is Roman Catholicism.

      • ……. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness….

        Comments: We know City Harvest Church is preaching and teaching the Truths.They are Charismatics,belong to AOG.Their doctrines had in sofar,all Christians affirm and not one of them dare to condemn.

        Heavens bear witness to their works and testimonies.CHC is still accepted as a sound Church.Their works are fruits we can see.They believe the Bible.They affirmed what they believed.God is working in their midst.They are the Sheep of Jesus.

        Facts,this is what we have seen: There are many carnal Christians expressing hatred against their Pastor and their existence.Even Non-charismatics Christian here wish them ill and spoke evil,and even quote the scriptures,selecting the portion”””they will all be scattered” harping ill-will against them,using the Master words against His own children!!

        They had pleasure in the sin of being malicious.They accused CHC.They had become the accuser of our brethren laying out charges against them.””The people of old then said these worldly wisdom words: If Jesus keeps performing all these signs,the world will end up belieiving Him,and we will all be doom..””

        So we have people,the non-charismatic fool ,a refusal to acknowledge the signs of Jesus in our days,actually hated it and keep opposing Jesus’s work in our day.Even to wish it away!These accusers believe not the Truth,they themselves had pleasure in attacking Christian ministers and ministries,with malicious words,and they had pleasure in doing it again and again!

        Jesus said,not every one who calls Me Lord Lord shall be saved…and Jesus goes on to name the reason as to why Jesus rejected them,..and they didn’t even know the Truths!Here is the reason,Jesus name,and expose,as to why God chose to reject them,those who became His enemies… even being self deceived and didn’t know about it..just like the Non-Charismatic here..she/he is so blurrrred!..

        Jesus said..it is because of your iniquities..your transgression…What then are the non-charismatic iniquities which cause her to be an enemy of Christ?But didn’t she sound sincere in trying to warn others of being deceived by false prophet?

        1,She use malicious words,and malicious is a sin as Romans told us.
        2,She attacks Christian minister,whom genuine Christian already bear witness that he is a true servant of God,say… Kong Hee.
        3,She dismiss the signs of God,even to form thesis out of her erroneous learnings,to hope to quash the Miracles and Signs of God.
        4,She had a strong delusion…..

        She said…despite Jesus did many miracles,and signs and yet all turn against Him…saying that it was wrong for Jesus to do miracles,and also discount and discredit the works of Jesus directly,all because she wants to win arguments on the issues that Miracles and Signs are worthless.

        She despised Charismatic brethren and attack them…he that hate his own brother abide in death..since she regard us as no brothers,and say..if we are really children of God,isn’t she proposed herself as our enemy?If she hate us,isn’t she abiding in death?We don’t hate her.

        Since her slanders and the spirit of the attacks resemble those Demonically Inspired self -righteous groups,those PHarisees,those Fundamentals,..as Jude mentioned since those days…their motive is trying to divide the Church,get all into strife and suspicion,in enmity against one another
        therefore it is their people who were deceived,and they are the false teachers.They exhibited themselves as wolves trying to tear CHC down,even using the letter-words of Jesus… to speak evil and hope evil to fall on them,but disguising as angel of light…just trying to warn others from deception???

      • @ Frankie Lee on July 16, 2012 at 10:47 am said =

        “We know City Harvest Church is preaching and teaching the Truths.They are Charismatics, belong to AOG.Their doctrines had in sofar, all Christians affirm and not one of them dare to condemn.” & …

        ….”She despised Charismatic brethren and attack them…he that hate his own brother abide in death..”

        # REPLY =

        1JOHN.1:19 = They(false-prophets) went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

        There have been many financial scandals happening among the Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches. Eg Jim and Tammy Bakker, Oral Roberts, Robert Schuller(bankrupt Crystal Cathedral), Benny Hinn(unread prayer requests dumped in rubbish bin minus the cash), etc. Google for “list of scandals involving evangelical Christians”.

        From the many past scandalous/sinful actions of the leaders of the Charismatic/Pentecostal Churches, I think it is reasonable to group them together with the Roman Catholic Church, the Jehovah Witnesses, the Church of the Latter Day Saints, the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, etc as erroneous.
        _ _ _ _ _ _ _

        ROM.9:13 = As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated”.

        PROV.6:16-20 = These six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
        ……. A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
        ……. My son, keep your father’s command, And do not forsake the law of your mother.

        God hates the sins of the evildoers bc they brought harm to the innocent victims, whom He loves. MATT.5:45 & JOHN.3:16 say that God even loves His enemy. But God’s sense of justice compels Him to avenge the victims by pouring out His vengeance upon the evildoers.(ROM.12:19-21) Eg GEN.4:10 says that the blood of the dead Abel cried out to God from the ground for justice. So, God then cursed the evil Cain.
        ……. God will also avenge Himself if evildoers offend Him, eg changing people who reject Him into homosexuals.(ROM.1:18-27)

        So, this is what is happening to Ps Kong Hee. I was just trying to point out that he has offended God by committing CBT with God’s money. So, he has to reap what he has sowed.
        ……. CHC members who blindly defend him are behaving like a son who is defending his corrupt/rapist/stealing father.

        Peace.

  14. Dear Non-Charismatics again,

    Let’s look at the real time issues.Now,Sun Ho didn’t further her noble motives and inroad into Hollywood,already stop that activities because it had stumbled foolish Christians,so she had done the right thing now.Would any person raked it up again?

    Her mission,and her callings had created so much misunderstanding,and cause dumb believers to fall,therefore she should abandon her mission.Abort it,and she should defied God.She must obey the voice of the Devils,and then it will please us all.

    I would like to hear one testimony,on any part of this Globe,that he or she backslidded in her/his Faith because of Sun Ho’s inroad into the world for the Gospel’s sake.

    Of course we shouldn’t stumble others,but others can stumble CHC members,and despised them and treat them like JUNK,judge them,and make mockeries at them!..Where is the voice to fight for Christians in CHC which were being despised by the Medias,the Only media in Singapore,and the many comments stating that there are stupid,and all the insults hurled against them?

    I am no CHC member,but I see all Christians,even you as my brethren!

    Are we to listen to Theologian,who had despised Kong Hee,whose incompetence and lack of success,no fruits at all,be our model so that we should be as useless as him but having puff up Bible Knowledge ,Degrees,Doctorate behind our names,alone?

    As a matter of records,those who did great for God were uneducated fishermen,schooled by God,and not man,and I always notice God chose the simple to confound the wise.

    Love in Christ.

    • @ Frankie Lee, on July 14, 2012 at 1:25 pm said =
      “Of course we shouldn’t stumble others, but others can stumble CHC members, and despised them and treat them like JUNK, judge them,and make mockeries at them!..Where is the voice to fight for Christians in CHC which were being despised by the Medias, the Only media in Singapore, and the many comments stating that there are stupid, and all the insults hurled against them?”

      Reply = I think this Word of God may apply to most of the CHC members,…….

      LUKE.13:34-35 = “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!
      ……. See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

  15. Dear Non-Charismatics,Finally u show your colors.You use the scriptures to attack CHC success,and you claimed to warn others,to beware of false prophets,and displaying your inward hatred and jealousies against your fellow brethren.

    U: ..Ka’aba in Mecca qualifies to be the true “church” and Islam is the true religion bc it has the most adherents in the world, ie 2 billion.

    Reply: Anyone can see your analogies is false,is nonsense.Numbers added in the Church was your premises for Fruits,and I just agree with you,and I believe it is also a very vital measurement still.My understanding is so differnt from your logics.

    Jesus commanded His diciples to win souls,and he that win souls is wise.Instead,you champion that “”he who cannot win souls””,that is Biblical…because you quote the NARROW way to HEAVEN verse of Jesus.You even use the verse of Jesus to justify your views,an attack on mega Churches success!.

    What did CHC teach,teach and do?Which doctrines of them were false?
    They are our main line Churches,supported Bible Society of Singapore,united with all Singapore’s Churches and doctrines-the Evangelical denomination…..Your accusations only fit the office of Satan,as recorded in Revelation:

    You are an accuser of the Brethren,the Office of Satan very well known all across the world.yOUR DENOMINATION ATTACKs Charismatics and all sucess of Christian ministries,and honor your own denomination,and it is done out of Pride and false accusations.You people have a reputation of being Pharisees.

    This is your color.No wonder Jesus emphasised many times,about your Brother,how you deal with your brother,and John wrote:
    He that hate his brother,he does not have eternal life…but abide in death.

  16. Pentecostalism began in 1900 when Charles Parham seeked to recapture the miracles and signs and wonders done by Peter thru the power of the Holy Spirit at the Day of Pentecost of ACTS.2.(around 33 AD) Such occurrences had practically disappeared from the Churches, eg raising the dead, speaking tongues of unlearned foreign languages, anointed hankerchiefs, martyrdom, etc. Charismatics are neo-Pentecostals.

    ***Reply: During the dark ages, many things also disappeared. The Power of the Gospel also disappeared along with it.If something is lost, don’t you want it to be restored? Now, God who restored those Gifts, why is it you are uncomfortable with? The last time I check, the enemies of Christ, the Demons were the only opposition, along with the Pharisees.

    Have the Demonic powers been dissipated and we don’t deal with them anymore, or should we deal with them at a disadvantage position, with no Power Gifts to combat them? Should we be blind like you, unable to look at the realms of the demonic world and the world of Angels?
    ——————————————————————————————–
    ……. Miracles and signs and wonders were also done by Moses at the Day of Passover at EXO.12,(around 1,500 BC) eg parting of the Red Sea, sending plagues to the idol-worshipers, getting manna from heaven, 100 Jews defeating 1,000 Canaanites in war, etc.
    Notice that both era with explosions of God’s power happened when God was sending very important messages to the world. So, miracles and signs and wonders were to attest His messengers and His message.

    ***Reply: Today,miracles and signs are no longer needed because God can do no miracles anymore,and God is not the same God of Moses and Elijah,or Peter,James and John anymore???

    If the disciples of Jesus were human beings, why despised us that we are less of a human being in the eyes of God? If the attestation of Miracles for them is very serious and important, don’t we need it more, for there are more souls to be won!

    Don’t give me Crap,that God’s power is no longer needed, as though Evangelisms works should be weak…or we have the complete Bible…and Jesus didn’t bore those Stripes for our sicknesses and deliverance, and God told us we cannot chose Blessings, Prosperity and Health, but we must chose defeat, and poverty, like those Nuns, vow to poverty for life!

    If the gifts had been lost during the dark ages,… go and find them back! What part you don’t understand?You sound like an enemy gloating that Christendom is being weakened should be the normal experience,and when she became powerful,it is a bad thing—for you and for your denomination. I see, you hope the way to Heaven is narrow, right?

    Jesus told us the way to Heaven is narrow, therefore with common sense and wisdom, and with His name who is higher than every other name, …Jesus has risen…so we must make the doors to heaven wider and get more into it and not let it be narrow anymore!

    Jesus died for the entire world sinners,not just for some!The Gospel is to be preached to all the worlds,all the earth,don’t we expect great results or should we be man of little faith,expect mediocre results?

    Jesus told them that few will find it, Heaven, because the environment and the powers of the world and Satan then…It also shows us that we, must be wise like serpents, use God’s power to breakthrough…I give you authority over all the powers of the darkness.

    You like the status quo, go ahead, and be ineffective,or be the Monday Quarterbacks.
    ———————————————————————————————–
    (HEB.2:4) Thru Moses, God gave the world His laws. Thru JC, God gave the world His salvation.
    ……. After Moses, such powerful demos by God dwindled. Similarly, after JC, such happenings dwindled to a rarity.
    ……. Did God send the world a new message thru Charles Parham.? The answer is no.
    I think Pentecostalism is unscriptural, so too is Roman Catholicism.

    ***Did God sent a new message to Charles Parham?..The answer must be no and should be no…Because we don’t want the Gospel preached so mightily; and many souls enter God’s Kingdom.The past 100 years were very impactful for our world! All the signs and miracles are so great, and many millions came to Jesus Christ, the Bible literatures grow, Churches boom,and we don’t like it!!ReinHard Bonke,had the word from God,that is–You will plunder Hell and Populate Heaven, and no wonder even Osama Bin Laden wanted to kill him besides many Pharisees of your type, who hated our own brethren’s success!

    Thank God that you didn’t manage to stop ReinHard Bonke,Benny Hinn and Billy Graham! Otherwise those 54 million decisions for Christ in Africa, that blood will be upon your hands!

    Your type of people had the most blood in your hands since the movement of the Charismatics which save many millions of lives for Jesus, and your evil and foul words had hurt the Lord’s Kingdom for a very long time.I have more pity on Adopt Hitler, than for your type, who continually hindered Salvation for sinners whom Jesus died, and attack Christian ministers from saving the lost souls,… on the pretext of warning them against false prophets, when in fact, you guys are the false teachers, wolves in sheep clothings,claiming to warn others. Recruiting unstable souls to be another slanderer, another foul mouth by touching and attacking God’s servants, thus they all, all your recruits became slanderers and they bear false witnesses, thus they lost their Names, being erased from the Lamb Book of Life.

    Bonke will be at City Harvests come August.

    Rev 12 :..the accuser of our brethren is cast down,which accused them day and night…

    Why do you like to join the profession and the Office of Satan, by being another accuser of our brethren?

  17. …after JC,Jesus’ministry, such happenings dwindled to a rarity. …….

    **i beg to differ..

    In the book of ACTs,the very shadow of Peter healed everyone,and Philip was like a superman,sent from one place to another,in quick sucession.Paul’s hankerchiefs did wonders,and we are told to immitate Paul,…he said it!

    Let those who does not love our Lord Jesus,let him be curse.

  18. IMO,…….

    Adam’s original sin(Aos) caused all humans to be born with evil hearts/flesh. Adam’s eating of the forbidden fruit enabled Satan to live in their hearts.(JOHN.8:44, MARK.7:20-23, MATT.16:22 & 23:27 & 4:4)
    ……. Evil heart/flesh –> evil thoughts –> evil deeds/sins.

    Satan seeks to destroy humans. Satan does this by regularly planting evil thoughts in their minds/brains/hearts/flesh, eg thru temptations, lies, worries, accusations, suspicions, empty chatters, etc. He wants them to sin against each other, against themselves or against God.(opposite of MATT.22:37-40) He “eats” dead humans or dust, as Adam died and turned to dust.(GEN.3:14-15, 1PET.5:8)

    To solve Aos, God chose the Jews to be His people, thru Abraham. Then He gave them His laws, thru Moses, in order to curb their inborn tendency to commit evil deeds/sins.(DEU.28:1-2 & 15) Moses Law had the provision of animal sacrifice to atone for their evil deeds, earning them continued earthly blessing from God.(LEV.17:11)

    Finally, He sent His Son, JC/the Word, to be sacrificed as the Lamb of God(JOHN.1:29), to atone for Aos(ROM.5:12), ie humans’ evil hearts and its resultant evil deeds. Those who believe in the sacrifice of JC will be saved from hell.(JOHN.6:17-58, MATT.26:28)
    ……. JC is God’s Voice or Word that became flesh and blood.(JOHN.1:1 & 14)

    MATT.5:48 says that God is perfect. I think it means God does not have hate in His heart, even for His enemies, ie God loves His enemies.
    ……. Here, JC was telling the Jews that they had to be perfect like their Father and love their enemies in their hearts, in order to be saved from hell. Their keeping of Moses Law by doing good deeds, ie by loving their neighbor/friends and hating their enemies, was not enough to save them from hell. Similarly, avoiding evil deeds, eg murder, adultery, cursing, etc, could not save them from hell. All this while, the Jews thought, they were going to heaven by keeping Moses Law.

    JC told them, it was their evil hearts which lusted, hated, got angry, jealous, greedy, fearful, doubtful, etc that was sending them to hell. This would apply to all humans. God the Father does not tolerate the presence of evil in His “home”, ie heaven.
    ……. JC told them that if they could not stop lusting in their hearts but still wanted to be saved from hell, then they had to pluck out their eyes(can’t look = can’t lust in their hearts) or chop off their limbs. That was an irrational or impractical solution. At MATT.16:15-20, JC finally told His disciples the secret about going to heaven. It meant the Jews could be saved from hell by believing in JC and His sacrifice for them; ie they did not have to love their enemies(by turning the other cheek) or pluck out their eyes or chop off their limbs. It is an inescapable fact that all humans have evil hearts/flesh.

    On salvation, believers are born-again(JOHN.3:5) with new lives(GAL.2:20 & 5:16-22). They have the laws/commandments/the Word of God inscribed on their minds and hearts by the Holy Spirit of God.(HEB.8:10 & 10:16) In this new covenant of Grace, believers’ evil hearts have been atoned for and they could supernaturally keep the laws of God or overcome the wiles/lies of Satan by relying on the strength of JC/the Word and the help of the powerful Holy Spirit.(JOHN.15:5,1JOHN.3:8) Believers should not rely on their own strength or willpower to do this.(MATT.4:4) Believers really love their neighbors/friends in their hearts.(MATT.22:37-40)
    ……. In comparison, the Jews kept Moses Law by fearing God and His curse or hell.(DEUT.4:10, PROV.1:7) They did not really love their neighbor in their hearts.

    God is a Person who speaks in Words and does things by His Spirit. At GEN.1:1-2, God said the Word, “let there be light”, and the Spirit of God created the light and “there was light”. The Holy Spirit of God accomplishes the Word that is spoken by God.
    ……. In other words, God is a Man of His Word. What He says in His Word, He will do by His Spirit. Eg God has given the Word of salvation and His Spirit will bring it into reality for the believers.

    Aos has also separated humans from God, physically and spiritually.(EXO.33:20, JOHN.1:18) So, God could only approach His prophets with His invisible Voice or Word or His anonymous human-looking Angel of the Lord and His Spirit. Later His Voice/Word became flesh, as JC.
    ……. JC is like the mouth of God and the HS is like the hands and feet of God. God the Father(GtF), His Son/Word and His Spirit are One. The Holy Trinity can be compared to the sun, her light and her heat.
    ……. No humans can come near or look directly at the sun, but they can come to and see her light/heat. Similarly, humans cannot come to or see GtF directly, but they can come to or see JC/the Word/HS directly.(JOHN.14:6 & 9) Hence, JC said, no one can come to the Father except thru Him and when Philip saw Him, he has seen the Father.

    1COR.15:24 says that believers will be able to see GtF directly again(like Adam did b4 his Fall) when JC deliver the kingdom to GtF, ie after the 2nd Advent of JC(1THESS.4:16, 1COR.15:52) bc believers will be transformed into incorruptible bodies after their rapture or resurrection.

    Peace.

    EZEK.1 & REV.4 describe the heavenly throne of GtF thru visions that were given to Prophet Ezekiel and Apostle John.
    .

    • Do you mean that your Church has no scandal?Tell us which Church you are from,and let us do a search and investigate?

      AOG denomination,Church such as City Harvest Church is not the same as Jehovah Witnesses,or the Mormons.Since it is your judgment that they are the same,so you have chose to be enemy with Christians in Evangelicals,and all Charismatics Christians,The Methodists,The Presbyterian,Lutherans,the Anglicans.You set yourself apart as the enemy of Christ,and you despised what we believe,the most important doctrines:That Jesus Christ died for our Sins and the only way to Heaven,and the Cross,and the cleansing blood of Jesus for the resmission of our Faith,and you also deny our confession that Jesus was born of Virgin Mary and Jesus was risen from the dead.Since you deny on what we held to believe primary,I take it that you are Not a Christian,but a child of the devil.

      You bear witness that we are false,and all our doctrines as false,or we are merely pretending to serve God and we are false teachers…this is a sin,and your judgment against us shows you are deceived and you are from the dark side.

      You can have no fellowship with us,for we who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour… anymore.You don’t share our faith anymore,and not only you show hatred against us,you judge us as false prophets,thus you claimed your judgments as from God.

      Either we are false prophet,or you must be.You made a distinction between yourself and us.If we are real Christian then you must false.There is no two way about it,because you set a judgment.

      The court has no verdict yet on Kong Hee,and the charges are frivolous from the outset,nothing which define CBT at all,and you can make judgment call base on those allegations.Are you not a dumb person?You said,you think Kong Hee is guilty of CBT..the board all approved the transactions,so whose Trust is violated?Did you not read that the Board,all of them were arrested,their Trust were not violated,for it was charge they are in conspiracies.If they are in conspiracies,and they are legitimate in Conspiracies,they are in collaboration,they cooperated to use those Funds–which committee and which Board and which AGM cannot cooperate and conspire to do any projects?

      If all of them conspire–that mean they follow the Law,they followed the Church Constitution.Then it is absolutely Legal to conspire that way.That is legal to cooperate and agree on a project.If a Board member vote no for the project,the project cannot go ahead,and then if they breach it then that is CBT.

      Who has recruit you to be a judge and be the another accuser of our brethren?

      • @ Frankie Lee on July 16, 2012 at 3:06 pm said =

        “The court has no verdict yet on Kong Hee,and the charges are frivolous from the outset,nothing which define CBT at all,and you can make judgment call base on those allegations.Are you not a dumb person?You said,you think Kong Hee is guilty of CBT..the board all approved the transactions,so whose Trust is violated?Did you not read that the Board,all of them were arrested,their Trust were not violated,for it was charge they are in conspiracies.If they are in conspiracies,and they are legitimate in Conspiracies,they are in collaboration,they cooperated to use those Funds–which committee and which Board and which AGM cannot cooperate and conspire to do any projects.”

        # REPLY =

        LUKE.12:42-48 = And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season?
        ……. Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has.
        ……. But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
        ……. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

        ROM.13:1-4 = Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
        ……. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
        ……. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

        *******In the House of God, pastors and elders are mere stewards of all that belongs to Him. They are accountable to God for their stewardship of God’s money and assets. They are to use God’s belongings to mostly provide for the material and spiritual needs of all the Church members, including for themselves.
        ……. At any time, God may use the local law enforcement agencies to impose His justice, ie against His stewards/pastors/elders who have offended Him by wasting His money. It make no difference to God if they had all agreed to do so.

      • There are authorities appointed by God,but also there are authorities appointed by the Devils.We have a higher authority to obey,and not man’s authority pertaining our Faith.For those authorities that doesn’t uphold justice,and were corrupt,they are not part of the ordained God’s authorities.

        God cannot be shared with corrupted mindset.God is Holy,and Just.Did not Peter said,we ought to obey God rather than man?

        U said:
        They are to use God’s belongings to mostly provide for the material and spiritual needs of all the Church members, including for themselves.

        Reply: Well said.So if they provide for themselves,those funds given to them,what’s wrong or what’s CBT?They can use the funds at their discretions,for you also said so?Then why are you saying you thought Kong Hee guilty?

        U said:
        At any time, God may use the local law enforcement agencies to impose His justice, ie against His stewards/pastors/elders who have offended Him by wasting His money.

        Reply: Obviously God has nothing to do on Kong Hee’s case,because God is with him,and he is serving God with full integrity.The devil came to steal,kill and destroy.In this dispensation of grace,adulterers would not be stone,or lock in prison for Life,neither does those who worship idols,unlike those OT days under Moses Law.

        God is offering grace and forgiveness to sinners,not punishment yet.

        Since you offer no points to refute that Kong Hee is guilty,or innocent,why be an acusser,for something that is unfamiliar with you?

        Are you trying to show yourself as an enemy of God?

      • @ Frankie Lee on July 16, 2012 at 3:06 pm said =

        “.In this dispensation of grace, adulterers would not be stone, or lock in prison for Life, neither does those who worship idols, unlike those OT days under Moses Law.
        God is offering grace and forgiveness to sinners,not punishment yet.”

        # REPLY =

        MATT.5:20 = “For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.”

        ROM.6:14-15 = For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
        ……. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

        HEB.10:26-31 = For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
        ……. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
        ……. For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”
        ……. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

        ******* I think there is no dispensation of Grace bc the requirement for Grace exceeds even the requirements of Moses Law. Christians are required to be more righteous/law-abiding than the Jews.

        Many Pentecostal, Charismatic and Lutheran leaders and members think that thru Grace, God has given them a license to sin. They think that since they are saved by believing in JC and not by keeping Moses Law, they have no more use for the laws of God, ie they can go about “in the Spirit”, inadvertently or advertently committing sins, be forgiven, repeatedly, sometimes for the same sins, and still be going to heaven, esp sins like adultery and fornication that are not prohibited/proscribed by the secular laws of most govts.
        ……. Some even merrily sin intentionally, to spite the Devil and his temptations, being confident that they are saved from hell, irrespective of their sins or breaking of God’s laws. I think this is not scriptural.
        ……. I think they have a wrong understanding about God, His laws and His Grace or Free Gift of Salvation.

        After we are saved from hell and have been born-again by the Holy Spirit, we, esp Gentile Christians, are supposed to keep the laws/commandments/Word of God(JOHN.14:15, 1JOHN.2:3) by immersing ourselves in the Word/JC/Scripture, so that the HS could inscribe the laws/commandments of God in our hearts and minds.(HEB.10:15-16) This will result in righteous/law-abiding believers who will be blessed with long and happy lives,(DEUT.28:1-2) on top of going to heaven when we die.
        ……. Believers who ignorantly or intentionally ignore the Word or the laws of God(esp those laws in the OT) and commit sins will be cursed with short and unhappy lives(DEUT.28:15), esp those sins that are not proscribed by secular laws, eg adultery, fornication, homosexuality, sodomy, dabbling in the occult, idolatry(idolizing a pastor?), etc.

        The laws of God rule over the believers lives, independent of the secular laws. Even though secular laws allow adultery, believers have been commanded by God not to commit adultery(hurting own wife/husband). Secular laws prohibit murder, believers have been commanded by God to not commit murder. Secular laws may change for the Satan-ruled world but the laws of God are eternal and apply to the believers here and in the hereafter.
        ……. The secular world did not abolish the laws against murder, stealing and cheating bc such laws are essential for order, peace and security. If not, how the govt collect tax.?
        ……. Adultery, idolatry and homosexuality were crimes punishable by death, in the theocratic kingdom of Israel, that was ruled by God thru His prophet/judge, Moses. The Jews rejected the rule of God and His laws and the result was not good for them. This secular world that has changed the laws of God is experiencing the same evil results, eg divorce, broken families, teenage pregnancies, AIDS, herpes, etc.

        True believers can make mistakes and inadvertently sin, esp spiritual babies. Sin results in punishment/curse from God or His agents, eg suffering, pain, sickness, loss, etc. In remorse, they will repent and seek forgiveness from God, thru JC. Having learned their mistake, they will not repeat the sin.(1JOHN.1:8-2:2, HEB.6:6-11)
        ……. False believers sin, enjoy their sin, keep on sinning the same sin and keep on asking forgiveness from God for the same sin. When God punishes them for their sin, they will attribute it as a test from God or as an attack from the Devil or his agents. Hence, they do not repent of their sin.
        _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

        Soon, the world’s govts will require everyone to receive the mark-of-the-beast, in order to be able to buy or sell.(REV.13:11-18) This mark will most likely be computer chip implants that will be implanted on their hands or the foreheads of the disabled. This chip will replace credit-cards, debit-cards and bank/ATM cards. Peoples’ hands will be scanned at the check-out counters of retail outlets/shops and their bank accounts will be automatically deducted.
        …….. Such a system will do away with cash, is very efficient, theft-proof and fraud-proof. Every chip will be assigned a 6/6/6 number, ie birthdate/PIN/IDn(identity card no or SSN). Eg 801124/XXXXXX/YYYYYY. With 18 digits, there will be no duplication of chips among the world’s population of 7 billion = only 10 digits.
        ……. Believers have been commanded by JC to reject this mark or they will lose their salvation. Notice that, here, believers will be required to obey a law/commandment of God, in order to be saved. In this case, obeying a secular law of the govt will mean breaking a law of God.
        ……. Refusal of the mark will mean persecution and death by starvation. Many believers will be dying for their faith, just like during the 1st century Church of the 1st Advent of JC. Then JC will return to earth for the 2nd time, in the clouds, to be joined by the believers who will be raptured or resurrected.(1THESS.4:16) JC will destroy this corrupted/polluted earth and all the unbelievers remaining on it. He will then create a new earth for His people.(REV.21:1)

  19. Can God acknowledge those people as His own,who try to divide us,despised our Faith,our confession of Faith,our evangelisms,our Charismatic denominations and our love for the Lord Jesus?

    It is written,those who hate our brethren abide in death,and he/she has no eternal life in them.All Christians know the commandments of Jesus,and knows how to treat and deals with one another,especially our brethren.We know John Calvin was a false teacher because he taught Once Saved Always saved,blasphemes God,for this is what John Wesley spoke the truth about him.On top of that,he killed Micheal Servetus,a Christian brother.

    He that hates his brother is a murderer.Christians are told to be forewarned of false prophets displaying signs and wonders,but Jesus made the warnings most clear-cut,and that is how we treat our brethren,such as..do you get angry at your brother without a cause?..Do you judge your brother?…Our Lord said that not everyone who calls Me Lord Lord shall be saved.It is the transgression,the Iniquities,such as Judging our brothers,hurting the works of the Gospel,hurting Christian Ministers,slandering them,oppossing them,tearing them down,ill-criticised them..(Korean Pastor went to Hell and saw people who ill- criticised others,who were once Christians end up there,obviously rejected by God.)

    A Christian will not be rejected by God or his names get blotted out if he obey God’s words,and live righteously,or he/she has no iniquities.

    The venoms those Carnal Christians spewed on Charismatic Preachers,or on Kong Hee,and those hate and divisions,how can they have Life with God?

    Why do so many hop and jump into the bandwagon,to join in and judge Kong Hee,and Christian ministers,offering thesis and rationales and even selecting Scriptures to destroy their works for God?They claimed to open other’s eyes.They want to open other Christian eyes,and they said we were deceived?Is it not true they are the ones being deceived because they seek to destroy the Gospel Preachers?

    No Christian would want to jump into the bandwagon to be another accuser of our brethren,to sin against God,bear false witness,or to bear witness when the conclusion and truths are not realised yet,or write words against fellow Christians,or their ministries,fitting the role as the Accuser?

  20. IMO,……. Pentecostals/Charismatics believe that Moses Law is irrelevant in a Christian’s life. I think this is wrong. We have to first look into the history of the early Church, in order to get to the root of this controversy between Law(Old testament/Moses Law) and Grace(New Testament/justified by faith in Jesus Christ and not by Moses Law).

    The first Christians, ie the apostles and 108 disciples(ACTS.1:15) were Jewish Christians.(JwC) On the Day of Pentecost in Jerusalem, with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles and disciples, 3,000 more JwC were added to the early Church.(ACTS.2:41) Then, most of them returned to their hometowns.
    ……. These early JwC still kept Moses Law and continued worshiping God in the synagogues. Up to this point, things were cordial between the Jews and the JwC.
    ……. But when Paul began converting Gentiles(ACTS.9:15) and bringing them into the synagogues, all hell broke loose bc the new Gentile Christians(GC) did not keep Moses Law and were considered unclean by the Jews.

    A group of JwC called the Judaizers wanted the GC to also keep Moses Law, in order to harmonize with them and the Jews. The leader of the Judaizers was James the Righteous, the bishop of Jerusalem and a brother of JC. Paul strongly opposed this.(GAL.2:9-14) Then a meeting was held in Jerusalem over this dispute.(ACTS.15:1-29) With Peter’s backing, Paul prevailed and the dispute was resolved by giving the GC nearly full exemption from Moses Law, so as not to burden them.
    ……. Notice that the GC were still required to keep 4 simple laws of Moses at ACTS.15:29, ie they were not completely free from Moses Law.

    I think God did this bc He wanted to give the GC reasonable time to transform their former lawless lives into law-abiding lives.(1COR.6:9-11 & 3:1-3) If the GC had been required to immediately keep Moses Law, it would have caused many drastic/burdensome changes in their lives. This might have caused some of the GC to abandon the faith.
    ……. Eg, in the law of circumcision, the Jews were circumcised as babies. If a GC adult male was to obey this law and be circumcised, he would suffer incapacitation for > 1 month.(GEN.34:25) If he “accidentally” had an erection, he would be in a hell of an agony.
    ……. The law of circumcision is good and holy(ROM.7:12) bc it desensitizes the forehead of the penis, thus reducing lustiness. That is why uncircumcised China and India have such huge populations. So, babies of GC should be circumcised.
    ……. GC should not use their liberty from Moses Law to remain in lawlessness and wallow in their former sins/evil deeds.(ROM.6:15)

    HEB.8:10 & 10:15 say that born-again believers have their minds and hearts inscribed with the laws/commandments/Word of God by the Holy Spirit.(JOHN.6:63) For the JwC, this was easily done by the HS bc they were already well versed with Moses Law.(JOHN.15:3, MATT.4:4) But for GC, this was not so. So, GC had to immerse themselves in the Word of God(both OT and NT), in order for the HS to fully inscribe His laws/Word into their minds and hearts. Only by doing so, could JC/the Word fully live in their hearts and the HS fully help them.(GAL.2:20, JOHN.14:17) Only by doing so, could they walk properly according to the Spirit and not according to their flesh(ROM.8:1-11) and bear the fruit of the Spirit(GAL.5:16-22, MATT.7:20, JOHN.15:2)
    ……. Believers keep the laws of God by relying on the strength of JC.(JOHN.15:5, 1JOHN.3:8) They should not rely on their own strength or willpower. In this way, believers really love God with all their heart, soul and mind and really love their neighbor/friend as themselves and hate their enemy.(MATT.22:37-40, ROM.9:13)
    ……. In comparison, the Jews kept Moses Law by relying on their own strength and willpower to fear God, His curse and going to hell.(DEU.4:10, PROV.1:7) The Jews did not really love God in their hearts or love their neighbor/friend in their hearts when they kept Moses Law.

    For the JwC, the Law came to them first, then only Grace.
    For the GC, Grace came to them first, then only the Law.
    ……. The end product in both cases should be the same, ie law-abiding believers.The Jews who rejected Grace(by not believing in JC and His sacrifice) and trusted only in Moses Law are not saved from hell. It is equally wrong for GC to reject the laws of God(by committing sins) and trust only in Grace for their salvation.(GAL.5:21, MATT.7:23, REV.22:15)
    ……. For salvation. both Law AND Grace are required. I think that is the meaning when JC said that He came not to destroy the Law but to fulfill it, with His Grace/Gift of salvation.(MATT.5:17)

    P S – James, who suffered humiliation at the hands of Paul at ACTS.15, took his revenge on Paul at ACTS.21:18-31. He nearly got Paul killed.

    P P S – Believers do not have to pluck out their eyes (can’t look = can’t lust in their hearts) or chop off their limbs(can’t murder = can’t hate in their hearts) or love their enemy(or turn the other cheek – cf ROM.12:14-21), in order to be saved from hell bc they could be saved from hell by availing themselves of the sacrifice of JC.(MATT.5:17-48)

    P P P S – The food laws of Moses actually teach believers to avoid being evildoers who behave like “wild” animals and not to socialize with them(2COR.6:14), eg lying snakes(poisonous fangs), murderous tigers, ungrateful/greedy/lazy pigs, blindly-loyal dogs, horny rabbits, etc. MARK.7:18 allows GC to eat non-kosher food, like pork, bc all food that is edible to man will not defile him/her.

    P P P P S – DEUT.18:9-14 forbids believers from consulting agents of Satan, eg horoscope, fortune-telling, palm-reading, mediums, witchcraft, bomohs, ouija-boards, etc. Believers are to only seek counsel from the prophets and apostles/disciples of God(who wrote the Bible), pastors, teachers, elders, etc.

    • I always am shocked as to why we just allow silly Theologians,whose narrow minded views and foolish theories bind us and make us subservient to their man-made traditions.

      If we are to say we better than them,the OT Law observers, in serving God and obeying a more stricter set of Commandments to live our Christian life,towards perfection and Holiness,that is more reasonable.

      The OT Laws contained punishment and enforcement,and many regulations we don’t follow at all.It is redundant on many aspect.When you say we needed also the OT Laws under NT,and by proposing it is as one set,or we still needed to follow them,you actually negated what true grace is all about.

      If we observe and follow the OT Laws,then we must pay 23% of Tithes,or be cursed,offered sacrifical Lambs,set up altars for the ceremony,appoint Priests,just like what Judaisms has being doing nowadays.Of course you don’t think of that do you?

      Neither would you think of observing Sabbath days,stone those who curse their parents,set up Special Court for the Christians,cut off hands and legs on those who sin,would you?

      You don’t burn Homosexuals,and closed down Tatoo shop,and demolish prostitution dens,do you?

      Under Grace we do have greater commandments to obey,and not those Laws.In your analysis,you had muddied on Instructions to obey God,and not those Laws of the OT,which were done away and we don’t follow them anymore.

      Your nonsense,and distortion here:…James, who suffered humiliation at the hands of Paul at ACTS.15, took his revenge on Paul at ACTS.21:18-31. He nearly got Paul killed….My reply: Paul saluted James…How did James took revenge?..How ridiculous can you be here?

      We are only under Grace,as Paul told us.That is final,and no more wranglings.Under Grace,anyone who slander,hate his brother Kong Hee,judges his brother erroneously,commit adultery,bear false witnesses,make a lie and spread it…these are all iniquities.The Lord respond to people,who did such thing…Not everyone who calls Me Lord Lord they shall be saved…and whether you are saved or not depend and hinges on these things,whether or not you commit iniquities again,because Jesus took our iniquities so that we won’t do,we must not sin again,..we must be free from sin…we are not to do them,we are commanded not to sin….

      And the Grace of God is to help us to overcome them,and never to excuse us from sins.Since the beginning of TIME,God is Holy and God never excuse sins in us.

      The OT Laws is completely irrelevence because we are under Grace.

      • @ Frankie Lee on July 17, 2012 at 1:27 pm said =

        “Under Grace we do have greater commandments to obey, and not those Laws. In your analysis, you had muddied on Instructions to obey God, and not those Laws of the OT, which were done away and we don’t follow them anymore.”
        _ _ _ _ _ _ _

        # REPLY =

        **MATT.22:35-40 = 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
        ……. 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and great commandment.
        ……. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]
        ……. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

        Footnotes:
        1. [a] Matthew 22:37 DEU.6:5
        2. [b] Matthew 22:39 LEV.19:18

        ####### The greater commandments quoted by Jesus Christ at MATT.22 are actually part of Moses Law in the OT, ie DEU.6:5 and LEV.19:18. JC did not give Christian believers any new greater commandments that make Moses Law irrelevant. In fact Paul quoted the OT a lot in his teachings found in the Scriptures.
        ……. In the NT, JC only taught people how to be saved from hell, ie thru His Grace/Free Gift, eg “eat My Flesh and drink My Blood.”(JOHN.6:17-58).

        We must remember that Moses Law once applied to the theocratic kingdom of Israel and Judah,(around 1,500 BC) which was ruled by God and His laws, thru His prophet/judge, eg Moses.
        ……. In the coming Millenial kingdom(new earth), believers will similarly be ruled by God and His laws, thru His Prophet/King, Jesus Christ. In this kingdom, adulterers, homosexuals, idolaters,thieves, etc will be executed.(eg ACTS.5:3) At the end of 1,000 years of this kingdom, some believers will perish, again bc of lawlessness.

        Believers should know that they can only be saved by Grace. And Grace will lead them to keep the laws/commandments of God. (JOHN.14:15, 1JOHN.2:3) Believers, esp Gentile Christians, should study the NT(to learn about Grace) and the OT(to learn about God and the laws of God).
        ……. It is a mistake to think that the OT and Moses Law are irrelevant for believers. How can believers keep the laws/commandments of God if they do not know about them.? Eg DEU.18:9-14, LEV.10:9, GEN.3:16, etc. If they sin ignorantly, they will still have to suffer the consequences of breaking God’s laws.(DEU.28:15, 1COR.5:5)
        ……. The Holy Spirit in them loves to keep the laws of God. That is why He will convict them of their sins(JOHN.16:8-9) and enables them to avoid sins/evil deeds.(1JOHN.3:9)

        Believers should know that they should not be like the stubborn Jews who thought that they could be saved from hell by just keeping Moses Law or the laws/commandments of God bc the Law could not atone for their evil hearts/flesh and the resultant evil deeds, which is an inheritance from Adam’s original sin. Any time believers have lust, hate, anger, greed, jealousy, etc in their evil hearts, they should know that they are in His Grace.

        **ROM.6:14-15 = For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
        ……. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

        **ROM.7:7 = What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law.
        ……. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a]
        (Footnote: [a] DEU.5:21, EXO.20:17.)

        **GAL.6:1-2 = Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.
        ……. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

      • @ Non-Charismatic on July 17, 2012 at 5:27 pm said =

        “Believers, esp Gentile Christians, should study the NT(to learn about Grace) and the OT(to learn about God and the laws of God).”

        REPLY =

        At 2TIM.3:16, Paul said that ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God……. . The emphasis is on the Word “ALL”, which means both the Old and New Testament.

        ####### How do Gentile believers accomplish the above, in practical terms.?
        ……. On salvation or being born again, they have Jesus Christ/the Word living in them by the Holy Spirit,(GAL.2:20) to guide them into all truth.(JOHN.8:32 & 14:6 & 6:63 & 16:13)
        ……. First, the HS says at ACTS.1:29 that they should begin their spiritual walk in the Spirit by allowing JC to enable them to observe the 4 simple laws of Moses, ie to abstain from from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. Eg, they are not to consume blood or meat that has blood in it.(LEV.17:14)

        Before coming to the Grace of God, most Gentile believers led lawless lives. The nearly full exemption from Moses Law was given to them by God, so as not to burden them and cause them to abandon the faith. Thereafter, they should learn more about Grace, God and His laws from the NT and OT, in order to love God, love others, do the things that please Him and do His will. Gentile believers do not have to be burdened by the customary and ceremonial laws of Moses(eg Pentecost, Passover, Hanukkah, Barmitzah, etc) but they should keep the moral laws of Moses by relying on the strength and power of JC.(JOHN.15:5).
        ……. Eg adult Gentile male believers do not need to be circumcised and let JC, who lives in them,(by the HS) overcome the lustiness that is in their evil hearts, with the Word.(eg “Thou shall not commit adultery, rape, fornication, etc”) Sex within marriage is lawful. I think masterbation for the unmarried is lawful. Adultery, excessive masterbation and sexual repression are unlawful. The main idea here, is to not cause harm or offense to others, self or God.(MATT.22:37-40)

        The Holy Communion(MATT.26:28, JOHN.6:17-58) has replaced the Mosaic law of offering animal sacrifice to God. Believers offer the sacrifice of the Blood and Flesh/Body of JC to God, which has atoned for their evil hearts and its resultant evil deeds – their inheritance from Adam’s original sin.(ROM.5:12) Whereas, the animal sacrifice of Moses Law could only atone for the Jews’ evil deeds, earning them only continued blessing from God, not salvation.

        About the law of tithing one tenth of income. It was instituted by God thru Moses in the theocratic kingdom of Israel at around 1,500 BC. Moses was like the PM of Singapore or the President of the US. As a prophet/judge, he governed/ran the whole nation and much money was needed to do this. Hence the tithe of one-tenth was commanded by God for the Jews in Israel. This money and offerings were needed for many purposes, eg to run the Temple of God, pay the salary of the priests, social welfare for the widows, orphans, disabled, etc, building and maintenance of infrastructures(city walls and water canals), etc.
        ……. But now we have no Christian theocratic govts, with a pastor as PM or President. Most govts today impose an average tax of 10% on all its citizens. To just run a church, a pastor does not need 10% tax or tithe on the church members. For a pastor to harp upon the church members to obey the law of tithe is a bit ingenius, manipulative, exploitative and greedy.(In 2006, one pastor was paid a salary of S$8,000 a month!!!) A reasonable figure for the tithe on Christians should be between 2 – 5%. The actual figure can be deduced from a Church’s financial accounting report.
        …….. Most Church members are already burdened by govt tax and the high cost of living. For a Church to unnecessarily add to their financial burden by insisting on a 10% tithe is wrong, esp when a 2% tithe is enough to run a church.
        ……. I think the prosperity gospel is a half-truth. In the OT, the blessings from God do not come from just obeying the law of tithing. DEU.28:1-2 says that the Jews were to obey ALL the commandments/laws of God before God would pour out all His blessings on them. And the 10% tithe do not apply to the Churches today bc they are not a theocratic govt running a country.
        ……. I think the law of Christ, Who lives in us, wants us to contribute to the running of our Church but with a reasonable Church tithe of between 2 – 5% of our monthly income. This is not burdensome to us. Those who wanna contribute more are free to do so. Anything < 2% is also wrong, ie a Church should not be bankrupted by stingy Church members.

        Peace and understanding.

  21. Dear Frank,
    Main point is: does EVERYONE in CHC know that CHC is funding Sun Ho’s music career to the amount mentioned? My mother attends CHC and it was never mentioned.
    When Sun Ho first tried to break into the America music scene, Kong Hee announced from the pulpit that there was a production company (or something like that) that paid Sun Ho $5m to do the “project”. So, I am very confused now… is CHC funding her music career (as you hv admitted) or there is a company funding it (as Kong Hee has announced)? What is this company’s name, may I know, if indeed there is such a company? I’ll like to ask this company for the details myself.
    I will surely appreciate if you can provide the details since it seems you know the INSIDE real truths.

    • Does Everyone knows in CHC about the funding details?Sun resigned from Pastoral duties,and Church,and took steps to avoid the mis-understanding but to no avail because of slanderers around.Was it to fund Sun’s music career?Funny was,many people were funded,from the poor to the students,and others even not from the Church received great help,and when comes to her own people,must we be unkind to our very own?

      CHC cannot lies.The main purpose is the cross over project,and since it is not just to fund Sun’s career,but a stepping stone towards a greater purpose,therefore they must be truthful and reveals what it is–to save souls,and to connect with the seculars.We cannot force them to make a lie and say,”:it is the ulterior motive,”CHC funded her career out of corruption.If we make them to tell lies,we will be in danger of eternal judgments.Why should we sinned against our God by false accusing others of evil motives and broke our own standing with God,being thrown out from God’s Kingdom ourselves and be perish in outer darkness because of our own iniquities?

      Does Everyone know?You are assuming yourself as one lacking simple insight in the workings of a Church,especially with 30000 members.If the CHurch were to hold AGM for every member,for the next ten years it would be just doing accounting,and nothing else.Does “”Everyone”” knows,is a question of deceits by insinuation and very wicked,it only come from people of depraved minds,and very slanderous in nature.An invalid question,a dumb one.

      The Church made announcement to fund the Cross over project,so the Church will use Funds from investment firms or any firms which they set up to do it.The main thrust of the issue is,did they do it?Did they used Funds from anywhere else,which belong to CHC to further the project,and not about which Company is involved!Strawman is outdated.

      For member who wish any details,they can check with CHC board,the accounting firms,and the person in charge to avoid further mis-understanding.

      What they have put up in public is more than sufficient,and as for details,only required you to join as member,but I am not.

  22. Dear Frank,
    I am interested to know the data/statistic of people that were saved through “China Wine” too. I am NOT saying there is none, but figures and statistics, not words alone, are the best proofs, isn’t it? Pls kindly provide these informations, eg, who collects the data and how was the data collected… information that all proper statistic shd indicate anyway… thanks.)
    Also, pls kindly include where these saved ones are from, to give the data better details.
    If you can provide us the above information/data/statistic, it will greatly minimize confusions and misunderstanding which I am sure you, a good brothetr, would want for everyone too.
    Thanks,
    Zoe

    • CHC has a website for you to find details.Can China Wine alone able to save souls?Of course not.A China analyst,a Christian discover the brilliance of the project.

      Honestly,I am still reeling over the effects of China Wine and Hollywood,and amaze at the wisdom of God,which is yet to unfold.

      **For more info,go CHC website and make enquiries from there.

      —————————
      Jenny HungTestimonies from the Hearts of City Harvest Members (Open)

      1997年2月的一個主日,是我第一次去到CHC,當時​我完全被震撼到。因為我從來沒有看到一個教會那麼年輕,​卻充滿對神對人的熱情,又那麼地全面而有深度地建造教會​。

      康希牧師是在2001年第一次來到新生命小組教會,當時​我們只是一個小小的教會,大概只有200多人,他卻帶著​團隊不斷地幫助我們的教會成長。而何耀珊也在當時來到台​灣舉辦「耀動真愛」演唱會,透過音樂和見證幫助成千上萬​的年輕人,每一次幾乎全場所有的新朋友,都走到台前決志​信耶穌,那是我第一次感受到福音的大能是如此地真實。

      2001年我不小心在澳洲摔倒,腳踝嚴重受傷,經過一年​的治療並不見起色,後來康牧師將我的X光片拿去給新加坡​頂尖的骨科醫師診斷,沒想到他立即幫我安排到新加坡住院​檢查、開刀。我在CHC同工的家裡住了近一個月,充分感​受到康希牧師、耀珊和CHC團隊真誠的愛心和關懷。

      康希牧師和耀珊對我的影響是全面性的,對於我的生命和服​事的學習,無論是敬拜讚美、門徒訓練、事奉的態度,建造​強盛教會的示範、弱勢關懷的看重、文化職任的觀念、流行​文化的重要性與實際轉化…等,幾乎都受到康牧師和耀珊直​接和間接的影響。他們不僅成為我的牧師、人生導師,我更​高興他讓我感受到朋友和家人的情誼。

      康牧師、SUN和整個CHC團隊在這十年期間,一直不斷​地幫助台灣的教會和新生命,整個「跨界」事工,繼續延伸​到敬拜讚美事工、青年事工、領袖訓練、復興特會、文化職​任、藝人事工….不計代價地來回新加坡和台灣(他個​人就超過250次,整個團隊加起來應該數以千次)。感謝​主因著跨界的計畫,新生命有了極大的突破與成長!年輕人​從30個成長到1700個,演藝圈幕前幕後人士也從0到​將近300位!我們的教會也從成長到平均3200人!本​地的先知或許總是很難得到尊重,但是在台灣的我們卻能夠​真真實實的經歷到跨界事工所帶來的豐盛恩典!

      更感恩的是,台灣基督徒的比例也從10年前的3%一路攀​升到2010年的10%以上。許多台灣的牧者領袖都認為​,康牧師、耀珊在台灣所做的一切,是這10年台灣教會增​長的主因之一 !

      這次康牧師、陳牧師等領袖團隊遇見如此重大的指控,耀珊​也因著跨界的事工頻受毀謗羞辱,實在使得不斷見證跨界果​效的我們,感到無比的遺憾和難過。但令我們感動的是在患​難中看見康牧師耀珊仍舊堅定的倚靠神、選擇愛,而CHC​全教會的合一與勇敢地見證,更令我們感佩。我們在基督裡​是一家人,一個肢體受苦,全身都受苦。我們會持續不斷地​禱告,相信上帝的公義一定會彰顯,宣告上帝必將得著最大​的榮耀!

      感謝上帝讓我們認識康牧師和耀珊,因為有你們,我們的生​命不再一樣!謝謝你們,我們都愛你!

      .

      • The crossover project had records of 140 000 souls registered for Salvation in Taiwan.There was a great sabotage of the project,as we know it.Kong Hee is being charged,and enemies of God try hard to sabotage it,to hope CHC failed in her endeavors.It is still in progress,time will tell.Would you support for the Connection to carry on or hope it will stop now?Did you not know that breaking Ice is also very costly?Must I say more?

        There is no urgent issues,nothing more demanding,more serious than the Salvation of lost souls-their eternity.It may cost us all we have,misunderstood and slandered,just to fulfil the mission of our Lord Jesus Christ.

        There was a man who said:I will crawl on my knees from USA to UK,just to bring the message of Jesus to my loved ones and friends and all British fellow man,if only the Gospel is real and true.Heaven and Hell is not a farce.

        Not everyone had that kind of shared-passion and deep love for the Lord Jesus as much as Sun Ho and Kong Hee had– for their master.

  23. Some distortion in this CHC documentary. CHC supporters, please open your eyes and watch carefully.

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